Pakistan Downs India's French Rafale Fighter Jets in History's Largest Aerial Battle

Pakistan Air Force (PAF) pilots flying Chinese-made J10C fighter jets shot down at least two Indian Air Force's French-made Rafale jets in history's largest ever aerial battle involving over 100 combat aircraft on both sides, according to multiple media reports. India had 72 warplanes on the attack and Pakistan responded with 42 of its own, according to Pakistani military. The Indian government has not yet acknowledged its losses but senior French and US intelligence officials have confirmed that at least one Indian Rafale jet was shot down by Pakistan on May 7, 2025. Reports of  more Rafale downings are being investigated by western intelligence officials. This marks the first time that the sophisticated French-made warplane has been lost in combat.

Rafale is the most advanced French 4.5 generation fighter plane. Indian Prime Minister Narendra spoke about India's need for Rafale back in 2019 after the last IAF-PAF dogfight and said: "We (Indians) acutely felt the absence of Rafale today.....if we had Rafale today the results would have been very different....desh ka bahut nuksaan hua hai"  Then Mr. Modi proceeded to spend $7.4 billion to purchase 26 Rafale fighter jets from France in the hope of achieving air superiority over Pakistan.  Each Rafale cost Indian taxpayers $288 million. 

Military aviation analysts conclude from the results of the air battle that the Chinese technology is as good, if not better than, the western technology. However, men count as much, if not more than, the machines.  The legendary US Air Force pilot Chuck Yeager called Pakistan Air Force pilots "the best in the world".  In another tweet in 2015, Yeager said "they (PAF pilots) kicked the Indians butt". 

In the 1980s, the Pakistan Air Force pilots went head-to-head with Russian combat pilots in Afghanistan. The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has the distinction of being the only air force that has engaged and shot down multiple Russian fighter pilots in combat since WWII.  The most prominent among those shot down by PAF was Colonel Alexander Rutskoy who ejected over Pakistani soil and was captured by Pakistan. After his release, Rutskoy was decorated as a hero of the Soviet Union and went onto become vice president of Russia under Boris Yeltsin, before leading an attempted coup in 1993, according to The National Interest publication. 

The aerial battle between Pakistani and Indian fighter jets, which Pakistani officials claim downed five Indian planes, was one of the “largest and longest in recent aviation history,” a senior Pakistani security source told CNN.  Over 100 combat planes battled for over an hour, with neither side leaving its own airspace, according to the CNN source who detailed that the missile exchanges were happening at distances sometimes greater than 160 kilometers (100 miles).  The entire air battle was conducted using BVR (beyond visual range) radars/sensors with stand-off weapons. 

Global militaries and defense analysts are now studying the India-Pakistan aerial battle on May 7, 2025, according to Reuters. Here's an excerpt of the Reuters' report: 

"Experts said the live use of advanced weapons would be analyzed across the world, including in China and the United States which are both preparing for a potential conflict over Taiwan or in the wider Indo-Pacific region. One U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Reuters there was high confidence that Pakistan had used the Chinese-made J-10 aircraft to launch air-to-air missiles against Indian fighter jets". 

Here's Prime Minister Modi Speaking of India's Acute Need For Rafale in 2016:

https://youtu.be/QIt0EAAr3PU?si=KpcJW60jvD9r0xeQ

http://www.youtube.com/embed/QIt0EAAr3PU?si=KpcJW60jvD9r0xeQ"; title="YouTube video player" width="560"></iframe>" height="315" src="https://img1.blogblog.com/img/video_object.png" width="560" style="cursor: move; background-color: #b2b2b2;" /> 

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Comment by Riaz Haq on August 2, 2025 at 8:17pm

How Pakistan shot down India’s cutting-edge fighter using Chinese gear

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/how-pakistan-sho...

On May 10, India said it struck at least nine air bases and radar sites in Pakistan. It also hit a surveillance plane parked in a hangar in southern Pakistan, according to Indian and Pakistani officials. A ceasefire was agreed later that day, after

US officials held talks with both sides.

‘LIVE INPUTS’

In the aftermath of the episode, India’s deputy army chief Lt. Gen. Rahul Singh accused Pakistan of receiving “live inputs” from China during the battles, implying radar and satellite feeds. He did not provide evidence and Islamabad denies the allegation.

When asked at a July briefing about Beijing’s military partnership with Pakistan, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Mao Ning told reporters the work was “part of the normal cooperation between the two countries and does not target any third party.”

Beijing’s air chief Lt. Gen. Wang Gang visited Pakistan in July to discuss how Islamabad had used Chinese equipment to put together the “kill chain” for the Rafale, two PAF officials said.

China did not respond when asked about that interaction. The Pakistani military said in a statement in July that Wang had expressed “keen interest in learning from PAF’s battle-proven experience in Multi Domain Operations.”

Comment by Riaz Haq on August 2, 2025 at 8:20pm

Social media posts suggest Pakistan has received a shipment of advanced aircraft similar to helicopter China has deployed near Indian border

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3320541/will-chine...


Images circulating online suggest Pakistan’s military has received a shipment of Chinese-made advanced attack helicopters, a version of which has been deployed by the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) near China’s mountainous border with India.


In the past week, photos and videos of the Z-10ME, the export version of the Chinese multirole attack helicopter, have appeared on Pakistani social media accounts.
On Tuesday, a social media user believed to be an active-duty member of the Pakistan Army uploaded a video clearly showing the helicopter airborne, apparently conducting field airport support missions from a military base.

The video was captioned: “First look at Pakistan’s Z-10ME attack helicopter armed with next-gen air-to-ground missiles.”

This followed a photo posted on Monday



The image marked the first credible evidence of the Z-10ME’s operational status within the Pakistan Army Aviation Corps.

While multiple videos and photos of the aircraft have circulated, it is unclear if they show the same Z-10ME or different helicopters of the same model.

Several news outlets reported in early July that Pakistan had deployed 40 Z-10ME attack helicopters into service, marking a significant upgrade of its aviation combat capability.



While specifics of the procurement and delivery timeline have not been disclosed, it is widely expected that the helicopters will officially debut during Pakistan’s Republic Day parade in Islamabad in March.

The revelation came just months after another Chinese aircraft operated by Pakistan’s military, the J-10C, made global headlines for shooting down Indian-operated French Rafale fighter jets when the South Asian neighbours clashed over Kashmir in May.
Senior military officials from China and Pakistan have interacted frequently since the conflict, including a meeting between defence ministers in June and talks between airforce chiefs in Islamabad last month.

Zhang Youxia, first-ranked vice-chairman of China’s Central Military Commission, met Pakistan Army Chief General Asim Munir in Beijing on July 25.
Zhang is the highest-ranking PLA official to engage with Pakistan’s military leadership since the latest Kashmir tensions. He highlighted military ties as a key pillar of China-Pakistan relations and urged strategic coordination, deeper cooperation, and joint efforts towards regional peace.



For nearly four decades, Pakistan’s primary helicopter force has consisted of AH-1F Cobra helicopters and a limited number of Russian-made Mi-35 Hinds, but the ageing aircraft are now viewed as inadequate for the needs of modern warfare.



According to an earlier report by state broadcaster CCTV, the PLA has deployed the Z-10 in the Tibet autonomous region, which borders India. The helicopter used in Tibet has an operational ceiling of around 6,000 metres (19,685 feet), and the export variant is also suitable for mountainous areas including Kashmir.

Comments on social media and military forums suggested the Z-10ME helicopters surpassed the standard PLA variants in engine power, protective systems, and electronic warfare capabilities.

The Z-10ME helicopters feature new WZ-9G turboshaft engines with improved power output, which can reportedly outperform India’s US-made Apache helicopters under similar conditions.


Comment by Riaz Haq on August 2, 2025 at 8:22pm

Social media posts suggest Pakistan has received a shipment of advanced aircraft similar to helicopter China has deployed near Indian border

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3320541/will-chine...

According to Chinese defence publications, the Z-10ME can reach speeds of up to 300km/h (186mph), with a combat radius ranging from 800 to 1,120km (497 to 696 miles), depending on fuel and weapon loads.

Its maximum take-off weight of roughly 7,200kg (15,873lbs) provides notable endurance and loiter time for both close air support and deep interdiction operations.

Its improved protective features include titanium and ceramic composite armour, significantly boosting pilot safety.



The high-definition image circulating on Monday suggested a suite of advanced avionics to improve situational awareness and missile defence capabilities. This includes an Active Electronically Scanned Array- or AESA-based missile approach warning system and directional infrared counter measures, making the helicopters even more sophisticated than the PLA’s own baseline Z-10s, according to defence analysts.

Most notably, the Z-10ME incorporates comprehensive electronic countermeasures, including radar, ultraviolet and laser warnings, with enhanced infrared directional interference systems – features previously unseen in Chinese helicopters.

Engine exhaust modifications and infrared suppressors further reduce the aircraft’s thermal signatures.



According to an earlier report by state broadcaster CCTV, the PLA has deployed the Z-10 in the Tibet autonomous region, which borders India. The helicopter used in Tibet has an operational ceiling of around 6,000 metres (19,685 feet), and the export variant is also suitable for mountainous areas including Kashmir.

Comments on social media and military forums suggested the Z-10ME helicopters surpassed the standard PLA variants in engine power, protective systems, and electronic warfare capabilities.

The Z-10ME helicopters feature new WZ-9G turboshaft engines with improved power output, which can reportedly outperform India’s US-made Apache helicopters under similar conditions.



Additionally, the Z-10ME’s armament upgrades include six weapon stations capable of carrying CM-502KG precision strike missiles with a 25km range and a 23mm cannon system, significantly outperforming older AH-1F and T-129 helicopter models.

Meanwhile, India is also upgrading its fleet of combat helicopters.

On July 22, the Indian Army received its initial delivery of three AH-64E Apache Guardian helicopters from the United States. The latest variant of the attack helicopters are expected to be deployed on India’s western front bordering Pakistan.

Comment by Riaz Haq on August 2, 2025 at 9:14pm

Habibullah Khan
@Huk06
Poor analysis because it doesn’t understand that a) Pakistan’s posture is defensive & b) Pakistan’s procurement is strategically aligned to its system of systems approach.

This approach which creates a kill web was used successfully to comprehensively defeat India in a high altitude battle. The piece Pakistan was missing was low altitude. Low altitude supremacy allows tank battalions to move as a crucial part of a hot war. Pakistan’s capability here was almost 60 years old.

Not anymore. China’s Z-10ME helicopter and its TY-90 missile are a deadly combination. TY-90 is the world’s only air-to-air missile specifically designed for low altitude helicopter combat. It has a 4 km range in all directions including above. It’s esp deadly to expensive drones like Israeli Harop & SkyStriker that are used by India to take out air defence.

Remember this helicopter will be guided by situational awareness data from satellites, drones, AEW&C, ground radar and humint inside enemy territory. Something India cannot manager yet. All encrypted. All synthesised to give real time data. In a defensive posture in mountainous regions like Kashmir the Z10-ME will use mountain cover to be the deadliest assassin to enemy helicopters and low altitude loitering munitions.

https://x.com/Huk06/status/1951747609724625010

Comment by Riaz Haq on August 26, 2025 at 4:49pm

Why has Pakistan launched a new rocket command after India conflict? | India-Pakistan Tensions News | Al Jazeera

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/8/26/why-has-pakistan-launched-...

What missiles will fall under the ARFC (Army Rocket Force Command):

Pakistan possesses a range of missiles, including surface-to-surface, air-to-surface, and surface-to-air systems.

While some are nuclear-capable, the ARFC will primarily control short- to medium-range conventional missiles, according to security experts.

Salik said the force currently includes the Fatah-1 (range up to 140km or 90 miles) and Fatah-2 rockets (range between 250-400km or 155-250 miles), both of which were deployed during the May conflict, along with systems like Hatf-1 and Abdali, which have ranges less than 500km (310 miles).

Ahmed said the new command would provide Pakistan with “deep-strike options against high-value targets in India without lowering the nuclear threshold”.

“The development of multiple-launch rocket systems and conventional precision-strike capabilities under the ARFC is central to executing Pakistan’s Quid Pro Quo Plus doctrine, which is a response to India’s escalatory deterrence posture,” he said.

The Pakistani doctrine of “quid pro quo plus” refers to the possibility of Pakistan’s response to an Indian attack, which could go beyond a simple reciprocal action, by being more expansive or even disproportionately severe in a way that could risk intensifying the conflict, but remain contained enough to avoid a nuclear escalation.


———————
In his first speech after the cessation of fighting, Modi said his country “will not tolerate nuclear blackmail” and added that the Indian government will not make a distinction between governments that support “terrorism” and “terrorist groups”.

Ahmed said the ARFC was aimed, in part, at countering “this new normal of ‘escalatory deterrence’ [from India] that seeks to exploit perceived gaps in Pakistan’s conventional retaliatory ladder”.

Pakistan’s nuclear doctrine has long been central to its defence posture and has for years focused on developing its arsenal of tactical nuclear weapons.

Tactical nuclear weapons consist of short-range, low-yield nuclear weapons which are primarily intended to be used against an opposing army on a battlefield, instead of medium-to-longer range weapons which can be used against strategic targets.

They are designed with the intention to deter any large-scale Indian incursion. But the 2025 conflict was the second time in six years that the two nations came to the cusp of a potential nuclear escalation, after tensions erupted in 2019 when Indian jets bombed Pakistani territory, claiming to hit fighter camps.

A former Pakistani government defence analyst said the rocket force was designed to plug gaps exposed during the May war.

“When India employed the BrahMos missile, Pakistan was unable to deploy its Babur cruise missiles in a conventional role, as they are solely managed by the SPD and Strategic Forces Command for nuclear missions,” the analyst said, requesting anonymity.

The Babur, also known as Hatf-7, is a ground-launched cruise missile with a 700km (435-mile) range, and has been operational since 2010 but remains tied to Pakistan’s nuclear doctrine.

“Establishing a new rocket force underlines shortcomings of the existing nuclear posture, which relied on tactical nuclear weapons to deter India from attacking Pakistan,” the analyst said.

“Conflicts in 2019 and 2025 clearly show that India has found ways to circumvent Pakistan’s nuclear deterrent. Now, conventional firepower is needed to cover India’s territory and overcome missile defences,” he added.

Comment by Riaz Haq on August 29, 2025 at 9:30am

India-Pakistan missile race heats up, but China in crosshairs, too | India-Pakistan Tensions News | Al Jazeera

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/8/28/india-pakistan-missile-rac...

Before announcing the ARFC, Pakistan showcased the Fatah-4, a cruise missile with a 750km range and the capability to carry both conventional and nuclear warheads.

India, meanwhile, is working on Agni-VI, which is expected to have a range exceeding 10,000km and carry multiple independently targetable reentry vehicles (MIRVs), a capability already present in Agni-V.

---

“With India working on different variants of Agni with multiple capabilities, this test was a technological demonstrator for India’s emerging submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) capability,” Ahmed said.

“Depending on the configuration of the warheads for India’s SLBMs, India will be able to deploy anywhere between 200-300 warheads on its SSBN force alone over the next decade,” he added. SSBNs (ship, submersible, ballistic, nuclear) are nuclear-powered submarines designed to carry SLBMs armed with nuclear warheads. India currently has two SSBNs in service, with two more under construction.

Pakistan, by contrast, does not possess long-range missiles or nuclear submarines. Its longest-range operational ballistic missile, the Shaheen-III, has a range of 2,750km.

“Pakistan also has South Asia’s first MIRV-enabled ballistic missile called Ababeel, which can strike up to 2,200km range, but it is the shortest-ranged MIRV-enabled system deployed by any nuclear-armed state,” Ahmed said.

Tughral Yamin, a former Pakistani army brigadier and nuclear policy scholar, said the countries’ missile ambitions reflect divergent priorities.

“Pakistan’s programme is entirely Indian-specific and defensive in nature, while India’s ambitions extend beyond the subcontinent. Its long-range systems are designed for global power projection, particularly vis-a-vis China, and to establish itself as a great power with credible deterrence against major states,” said Yamin, author of The Evolution of Nuclear Deterrence in South Asia.

But some experts say Pakistan’s missile development programme isn’t only about India.

Ashley J Tellis, the Tata Chair for Strategic Affairs at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace (CEIP), said that while “India wants to be able to range China and Pakistan,” Islamabad is building the capability to keep Israel – and even the US – in its range, in addition to India.

“The conventional missile force in both countries is designed to strike critical targets without putting manned strike aircraft at risk,” Tellis told Al Jazeera.

---

Ahmed, the Canberra-based academic, said India’s long-range missile development is openly supported by Western powers as part of the US-led Asia Pacific strategy.

“The US and European powers have viewed and encouraged India to act as a net security provider. The India-US civil nuclear deal and the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) waiver effectively gave India de facto nuclear weapons status without signing the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT),” he said.

The NPT is a Cold War-era treaty aimed at preventing the spread of nuclear weapons, promoting the peaceful use of nuclear energy and advancing the goal of nuclear disarmament. It formally recognises only the United States, Russia, China, France and Britain as nuclear weapons states.

But the 2008 waiver from the NSG – a club of 48 nations that sell nuclear material and technology – allowed India to engage in global nuclear trade despite not being an NPT signatory, a unique status that elevated its global standing.

Clary from the University of Albany, however, pointed out that unlike the Biden administration, the current Trump White House has not expressed any concerns about Pakistan’s missile programme – or about India’s Agni-V test.

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