Pakistan Downs India's French Rafale Fighter Jets in History's Largest Aerial Battle

Pakistan Air Force (PAF) pilots flying Chinese-made J10C fighter jets shot down at least two Indian Air Force's French-made Rafale jets in history's largest ever aerial battle involving over 100 combat aircraft on both sides, according to multiple media reports. India had 72 warplanes on the attack and Pakistan responded with 42 of its own, according to Pakistani military. The Indian government has not yet acknowledged its losses but senior French and US intelligence officials have confirmed that at least one Indian Rafale jet was shot down by Pakistan on May 7, 2025. Reports of  more Rafale downings are being investigated by western intelligence officials. This marks the first time that the sophisticated French-made warplane has been lost in combat.

Rafale is the most advanced French 4.5 generation fighter plane. Indian Prime Minister Narendra spoke about India's need for Rafale back in 2019 after the last IAF-PAF dogfight and said: "We (Indians) acutely felt the absence of Rafale today.....if we had Rafale today the results would have been very different....desh ka bahut nuksaan hua hai"  Then Mr. Modi proceeded to spend $7.4 billion to purchase 26 Rafale fighter jets from France in the hope of achieving air superiority over Pakistan.  Each Rafale cost Indian taxpayers $288 million. 

Military aviation analysts conclude from the results of the air battle that the Chinese technology is as good, if not better than, the western technology. However, men count as much, if not more than, the machines.  The legendary US Air Force pilot Chuck Yeager called Pakistan Air Force pilots "the best in the world".  In another tweet in 2015, Yeager said "they (PAF pilots) kicked the Indians butt". 

In the 1980s, the Pakistan Air Force pilots went head-to-head with Russian combat pilots in Afghanistan. The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has the distinction of being the only air force that has engaged and shot down multiple Russian fighter pilots in combat since WWII.  The most prominent among those shot down by PAF was Colonel Alexander Rutskoy who ejected over Pakistani soil and was captured by Pakistan. After his release, Rutskoy was decorated as a hero of the Soviet Union and went onto become vice president of Russia under Boris Yeltsin, before leading an attempted coup in 1993, according to The National Interest publication. 

The aerial battle between Pakistani and Indian fighter jets, which Pakistani officials claim downed five Indian planes, was one of the “largest and longest in recent aviation history,” a senior Pakistani security source told CNN.  Over 100 combat planes battled for over an hour, with neither side leaving its own airspace, according to the CNN source who detailed that the missile exchanges were happening at distances sometimes greater than 160 kilometers (100 miles).  The entire air battle was conducted using BVR (beyond visual range) radars/sensors with stand-off weapons. 

Global militaries and defense analysts are now studying the India-Pakistan aerial battle on May 7, 2025, according to Reuters. Here's an excerpt of the Reuters' report: 

"Experts said the live use of advanced weapons would be analyzed across the world, including in China and the United States which are both preparing for a potential conflict over Taiwan or in the wider Indo-Pacific region. One U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Reuters there was high confidence that Pakistan had used the Chinese-made J-10 aircraft to launch air-to-air missiles against Indian fighter jets". 

Here's Prime Minister Modi Speaking of India's Acute Need For Rafale in 2016:

https://youtu.be/QIt0EAAr3PU?si=KpcJW60jvD9r0xeQ

http://www.youtube.com/embed/QIt0EAAr3PU?si=KpcJW60jvD9r0xeQ"; title="YouTube video player" width="560"></iframe>" height="315" src="https://img1.blogblog.com/img/video_object.png" width="560" style="cursor: move; background-color: #b2b2b2;" /> 

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Views: 282

Comment by Riaz Haq on June 9, 2025 at 8:32pm

Zhao DaShuai 东北进修🇨🇳
@zhao_dashuai
Shares of Shenyang Aircraft Corporation surges after Pakistan confirms they will purchase 40 J-35AE stealth fighters.

https://x.com/zhao_dashuai/status/1932132330858295350

Comment by Riaz Haq on June 10, 2025 at 9:38pm

Sushant Singh
@SushantSin
Narrative is a function of reality. India suffered significant combat losses on the first night which it wants to paper over. It is by hiding the reality that you lose the narrative war globally. Domestically you can make the people believe that Karachi was about to be captured.


https://x.com/SushantSin/status/1932291800171168138

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Pakistan used Chinese weapons in its fight with India. The impact may be far-reaching : NPR

https://www.npr.org/2025/06/10/nx-s1-5421262/pakistan-used-chinese-...

Comment by Riaz Haq on June 13, 2025 at 10:21am

Thomas Keith
@iwasnevrhere_
Absolute clown take. These guys see a 200-jet precision raid backed by decades of U.S. air supremacy, stealth platforms, and total electronic warfare integration, and think Delhi could just copy-paste it across the Himalayas into Pakistani airspace, like it's a sandbox sim.

Newsflash: Pakistan already knocked India’s teeth out in May, No. 24 Squadron ran EW rings around their entire northern command, Rafales got lit up on open comms, and not a single PAF bird was scratched while Indian radars went blind.

You want to “do what Israel did to Iran”? Try penetrating PAF airspace first without losing an AWACS or triggering Chinese over-the-shoulder coverage. Try pushing a strike package past Ormara without BeiDou spoofing your targeting mid-flight. Try not getting your ports jammed and your markets spooked before the first sortie.

Bharat isn’t Israel, and Pakistan isn’t Iran. The last time Delhi tried to play empire, it got clocked across 3 domains before it could even write the press release. Keep talking, the next round won’t be a rehearsal.

https://x.com/iwasnevrhere_/status/1933536629236387879

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Thomas Keith
@iwasnevrhere_
When these doomer posts say “Pakistan is next,” they’re importing a framework that doesn’t apply. The Zionist and Indian obsession with “next” collapses under the reality that Pakistan is not a soft target, it’s a fused-state deterrent node with second-strike clarity, digital redundancy, and real-time uplink to a Eurasian shield.

The correct framing isn’t “Pakistan is next.” It’s: They tried, and Pakistan was ready. Anyone reading the May air war knows: Pakistan isn’t Iran’s sequel. It’s a firewall they couldn’t breach.

https://x.com/iwasnevrhere_/status/1933541177757728991

Comment by Riaz Haq on June 30, 2025 at 2:11pm

Captain Shiv Kumar: Indian Air Force instructed to not attack Pakistani air defenses

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/op-sindoor-losses-due-to-...

NEW DELHI: India lost some fighter jets on the opening day of the recent military confrontation with Pakistan due to initial restrictions imposed by the government on striking Pakistani military establishments and the orders were to hit only terror infrastructure in that country, India’s defence attache (Indian Navy Captain Shiv Kumar) to Indonesia said at a seminar in Jakarta.


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The Government Tied IAF’s Hand
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https://youtu.be/Igudij1lRvk?si=8nIN1_gmkY9rApKz

SEAD, which stands for Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses, is a military tactic focused on neutralizing or destroying enemy air defense systems.It's a critical component of air operations, designed to allow friendly aircraft to operate more safely and effectively in contested airspace. SEAD operations aim to degrade or eliminate the threat posed by enemy air defenses, such as surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) and anti-aircraft artillery (AAA), enabling offensive air operations.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
What SEAD does:
Neutralizes or destroys enemy air defenses:
.
SEAD missions target and eliminate enemy air defense systems, including radar installations, missile sites, and anti-aircraft artillery.
Enables freedom of movement for friendly air forces:
.
By reducing the threat from enemy air defenses, SEAD allows friendly aircraft to operate more freely and effectively, supporting broader air operations.
Supports all air operations:
.
SEAD is a fundamental part of air power, supporting everything from preemptive strikes to local air superiority missions.
How SEAD is achieved:
Physical attack:
.
SEAD can involve direct strikes on enemy air defense systems using bombs, missiles, or other munitions.
Electronic warfare:
.
SEAD can also employ electronic warfare techniques, such as jamming enemy radar or using decoys to confuse their systems.
Information and command-and-control warfare:
.
Targeting the enemy's ability to detect, track, and engage friendly aircraft is also a crucial part of SEAD.

Comment by Riaz Haq on July 3, 2025 at 6:33pm
Kaz 🇵🇰
@kozamli
Former Air Chief Sohail Aman on the importance of Indigenization and Link 17 - Pakistan’s local TDL (tactical data link) system which allows for secure, jam-resistant voice and data sharing between aerial and ground assets for better coordination and situational awareness.

https://x.com/kozamli/status/1940768028284870765

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Mansoor Ahmed Qureshi
@MansurQr
Ex-PAF Chief:
We knew where every IAF jet was.
We broke their datalinks.
Their Rafales returned to dark runways.
34 bases hit.
May 7–10 wasn’t war. It was domination. 🇵🇰

https://x.com/MansurQr/status/1940650007390191688

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Indian External Affairs Minister S. Jaishankar has disclosed that US Vice President JD Vance warned Prime Minister Narendra Modi on the night of May 9 about a possible large-scale attack by Pakistan, urging India to consider "certain things" to avoid escalation.

Speaking in an interview with the US media outlet, Jaishankar said the warning was issued during a direct phone call between Vice President Vance and PM Modi.

"I was in the room when the US vice president spoke to Prime Minister Modi on the night of May 9, warning that the Pakistanis would launch a very massive assault on India if we did not accept certain things," he said.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/amp/1326048-us-warned-modi-of-major-paki...

"That night, Pakistan did launch a large-scale attack," Jaishankar stated.

Recently, the strategic group "Quad" consisting of the United States, India, Japan and Australia chose not to name Pakistan in a joint statement condemning Pahalgam attack in IIOJK.

The US State Department issued a joint statement by the foreign ministers of the grouping, who met in Washington, but stopped short of naming Pakistan or blaming Islamabad.

Last month, Pakistan and India engaged in the military confrontation triggered by April's Pahalgam attack in IIOJK.

In response to the Indian aggression, Pakistan's armed forces launched a large-scale retaliatory military action, named "Operation Bunyan-um-Marsoos", and targeted several Indian military targets across multiple regions.

Pakistan downed its six fighter jets, including three Rafales, and dozens of drones. After at least 87 hours, the war between the two nuclear-armed nations ended on May 10 with a ceasefire agreement brokered by the US.

The ceasefire was first announced by US President Donald Trump on social media after Washington held talks with both sides, but India has differed with Trump's claims that it resulted from his intervention and threats to sever trade talks.

However, Pakistan has acknowledged Trump's efforts and formally recommended him for the 2026 Nobel Peace Prize, citing his role in defusing tensions between Pakistan and India last month.
Comment by Riaz Haq on July 25, 2025 at 9:52am

Tejasswi Prakash
@Tiju0Prakash
We’re losing air superiority.

IAF now has just 29 squadrons, dangerously close to Pakistan’s 25, who already shot down 6 of our jets, including Rafales.
China? 66 squadrons & 1,200 jets.

After 10 years in power, Modi govt failed to modernize our air force, cancelled crucial deals, delayed Tejas production, and now we're staring at a security crisis.

Photo-ops don’t defend borders. Strategy does.

https://x.com/Tiju0Prakash/status/1948671157177331985

------------------------

Fighter jets: Flying towards scary parity with Pakistan

With the last MiG-21s getting phased out, IAF will have almost the same number of fighters as PAF

By Rudroneel Ghosh

A squadron typically has 18-20 fighter jets. In two months’ time, India will have 522 fighter jets. Pakistan has 450, and China, 1,200.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/fighter-jets-flying-towar...

As of October, India will have 29 fighter jet squadrons, while Pakistan will have 25, resulting in near-parity.This reduction in India's squadrons is due to the retirement of the MiG-21. In contrast, China's air force boasts 66 fighter squadrons.
India's Fighter Jet Situation:
Squadron Count: India's fighter jet squadron number will drop to 29.
Historical Context: The Indian Air Force (IAF) was established in 1932 and has operated around 90 squadrons, including 31 with fighter aircraft.
Aircraft Types: The IAF operates a variety of combat, patrol, and transport aircraft, helicopters, and UAVs.
Key Squadrons: Of the 29 squadrons, only 13 are equipped with the modern Su-30 MKI and 2 with the Rafale.
Retirements: The MiG-21 is set to retire in September, contributing to the reduction in squadron numbers.
Current Need: The IAF is assessed to need 42 squadrons to be at full strength.
Modernization Efforts: India is looking to acquire 2-3 squadrons of fifth-generation fighter jets from the US or Russia, and also plans to build 114 modern 4.5+ generation fighters under the "Make in India" initiative.
Pakistan's Fighter Jet Situation:
Squadron Count:
Pakistan currently has 25 fighter jet squadrons.
Key Aircraft:
The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) relies on the JF-17 Thunder, F-16 Fighting Falcon, and J-10C, according to a YouTube video.
JF-17 Backbone:
The JF-17, co-developed with China, forms the numerical backbone of the PAF.
Modernization:
The PAF has been modernizing and adapting its fleet, including incorporating the J-10C from China.
Deterrence:
The PAF has been shaped into a force focused on deterrence and tactical flexibility, with a focus on agility and a networked doctrine.
China's Air Force:
Squadron Count:
China's air force has a significantly larger number of fighter squadrons, with 66.
Advanced Capabilities:
China is also reportedly working on sixth-generation fighter jets and may provide fifth-generation aircraft to Pakistan.

Comment by Riaz Haq on July 26, 2025 at 5:23pm

Alan Warnes
@warnesyworld
Obviously a man who understands what happened on May 6/7 between the #IndianAirForce and #PakistanAirForce. Even if it won't go down well with many of his compatriots.
@PravinSawhney

https://x.com/warnesyworld/status/1949196288739905649

---------------
Pravin Sawhney
@PravinSawhney
CDS Anil Chauhan has said that #OperationSindoor is still on.
This has been said to give escape route to the government to not discuss the air battle on May 7/8 night with the opposition in the Parliament.
Without this, rest is of little consequence because both sides have understood their operational gaps & will fill them swiftly with appropriate weapons acquisition.
The air battle is a different ballgame for four reasons:
1. It is about building a digital ecosystem to support air power to operate at beyond visual ranges. Putting this hardware & software is time consuming.
2. It is about pilot training to optimally operate a complex digital system which takes years of training, dedicated & focus
3. It is about advanced Electronic Warfare. This is what no nation shares with another.
4. Between India & Pakistan, the air war will largely determine the campaign outcome.
Moreover, no sensible nation uses its air power against a peer military competitor on non military targets deep within enemy territory. Worse, to believe that after such act the enemy, when informed, will not retaliate is to live in a fantasy world.
I have great difficulty in understanding India's political & military leadership!

https://x.com/PravinSawhney/status/1948932600266883538

Comment by Riaz Haq on Thursday

China Begins Delivering Z-10ME Attack Helicopters to Pakistan – The Defense Post

https://thedefensepost.com/2025/07/31/pakistan-z10me-helicopters-ch...

Developed by China’s state-owned Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation, the Z-10 is a medium-weight attack helicopter designed for anti-tank operations and limited air-to-air combat.

It has a length of 14 meters (46 feet), a rotor diameter of 13 meters (43 feet), and is powered by twin WZ-9C turboshaft engines with about 1,600 horsepower each.

Users can arm the system with a revolving cannon, guided and unguided bombs, multi-domain missiles, and loitering munitions.

The Z-10 has an operational altitude of 6,400 meters (20,997 feet), a top speed of 160 knots (296 kilometers/184 miles per hour), and a range of 430 nautical miles (796 kilometers/495 miles).

Current estimates indicate that the People’s Liberation Army employs around 200 of the helicopters.

Comment by Riaz Haq yesterday

How Pakistan shot down India’s cutting-edge fighter using Chinese gear

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/how-pakistan-sho...

ISLAMABAD/NEW DELHI: Just after midnight on May 7, the screen in the Pakistan Air Force’s operations room lit up in red with the positions of dozens of active enemy planes across the border in India.

Air Chief Mshl. Zaheer Sidhu had been sleeping on a mattress just off that room for days in anticipation of an Indian assault.

New Delhi had blamed Islamabad for backing militants who carried out an attack the previous month in Indian-administered Kashmir, which killed 26 civilians. Despite Islamabad denying any involvement, India had vowed a response, which came in the early hours of May 7 with air strikes on Pakistan.

Sidhu ordered Pakistan’s prized Chinese-made J-10C jets to scramble. A senior Pakistani Air Force (PAF) official, who was present in the operations room, said Sidhu instructed his staff to target Rafales, a French-made fighter that is the jewel of India’s fleet and had never been downed in battle.

“He wanted Rafales,” said the official.

The hour-long fight, which took place in darkness, involved some 110 aircraft, experts estimate, making it the world’s largest air battle in decades. The J-10s shot down at least one Rafale, Reuters reported in May, citing US officials. Its downing surprised many in the military community and raised questions about the effectiveness of Western military hardware against untested Chinese alternatives. Shares of Dassault, which makes the Rafale, dipped after reports the fighter had been shot down. Indonesia, which has outstanding Rafale orders, has said it is now considering purchasing J-10s – a major boost to China’s efforts to sell the aircraft overseas.

But Reuters interviews with two Indian officials and three of their Pakistani counterparts found that the performance of the Rafale wasn’t the key problem: Central to its downing was an Indian intelligence failure concerning the range of the

China-made PL-15 missile fired by the J-10 fighter. China and Pakistan are the only countries to operate both J-10s, known as Vigorous Dragons, and PL-15s.

The faulty intelligence gave the Rafale pilots a false sense of confidence they were out of Pakistani firing distance, which they believed was only around 150 km, the Indian officials said, referring to the widely cited range of PL-15’s export variant.

“We ambushed them,” the PAF official said, adding that Islamabad conducted an electronic warfare assault on Delhi’s systems in an attempt to confuse Indian pilots. Indian officials dispute the effectiveness of those efforts.

“The Indians were not expecting to be shot at,” said Justin Bronk, air warfare expert at London’s Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) think-tank. “And the PL-15 is clearly very capable at long range.”

The PL-15 that hit the Rafale was fired from around 200km (124.27 mi) away, according to Pakistani officials, and even farther according to Indian officials. That would make it among the longest-range air-to-air strikes recorded.

India’s defense and foreign ministries did not return requests for comment about the intelligence mistakes. Delhi hasn’t acknowledged a Rafale being shot down, but France’s air chief told reporters in June that he had seen evidence of the loss of that fighter and two other aircraft flown by India, including a Russian-made Sukhoi. A top Dassault executive also told French lawmakers that month that India had lost a Rafale in operations, though he didn’t have specific details.

Pakistan’s military referred to past comments by a spokesperson who said that its professional preparedness and resolve was more important than the weaponry it had deployed. China’s defense ministry did not respond to Reuters’ questions. Dassault and UAC, the manufacturer of the Sukhoi, also did not return requests for comment.

Comment by Riaz Haq yesterday

How Pakistan shot down India’s cutting-edge fighter using Chinese gear

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/how-pakistan-sho...

“SITUATIONAL AWARENESS”

Reuters spoke to eight Pakistani and two Indian officials to piece together an account of the aerial battle, which marked the start of four days of fighting between the two nuclear-armed neighbors that caused alarm in Washington. The officials all spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss national security matters.

Not only did Islamabad have the element of surprise with its missiles’ range, the Pakistani and Indian officials said, but it managed to more efficiently connect its military hardware to surveillance on the ground and in the air, providing it with a clearer picture of the battlefield. Such networks, known as “kill chains,” have become a crucial element of modern warfare.

Four Pakistani officials said they created a “kill chain,” or a multi-domain operation, by linking air, land and space sensors. The network included a Pakistani-developed system, Data Link 17, which connected Chinese military hardware with other equipment, including a Swedish-made surveillance plane, two Pakistani officials said.

The system allowed the J-10s flying closer to India to obtain radar feeds from the surveillance plane cruising further away, meaning the Chinese-made fighters could turn their radars off and fly undetected, according to experts. Pakistan’s military did not respond to requests for comment on this point.

Delhi is trying to set up a similar network, the Indian officials said, adding that their process was more complicated because the country sourced aircraft from a wide range of exporters.

Retired UK Air Mshl. Greg Bagwell, now a fellow at RUSI, said the episode didn’t conclusively prove the superiority of either Chinese or Western air assets but it showed the importance of having the right information and using it.

“The winner in this was the side that had the best situational awareness,” said Bagwell.

CHANGE IN TACTICS

After India in the early hours of May 7 struck targets in Pakistan that it called “terrorist infrastructure,” Sidhu ordered his squadrons to switch from defense to attack.

Five PAF officials said India had deployed some 70 planes, which was more than they had expected and provided Islamabad’s PL-15s with a target-rich environment. India has not said how many planes were used.

The May 7 battle marked the first big air contest of the modern era in which weaponry is used to strike targets beyond visual range, said Bagwell, noting both India and Pakistan’s planes remained well within their airspaces across the duration of the fight.

Five Pakistani officials said an electronic assault on Indian sensors and communications systems reduced the situational awareness of the Rafale’s pilots.

The two Indian officials said the Rafales were not blinded during the skirmishes and that Indian satellites were not jammed. But they acknowledged that Pakistan appeared to have disrupted the Sukhoi, whose systems Delhi is now upgrading.

Other Indian security officials have deflected questions away from the Rafale, a centerpiece of India’s military modernization, to the orders given to the air force.

India’s defense attaché in Jakarta told a university seminar that Delhi had lost some aircraft “only because of the constraint given by the political leadership to not attack (Pakistan’s) military establishments and their air defenses.”

India’s chief of defense staff Gen. Anil Chauhan previously told Reuters that Delhi quickly “rectified tactics” after the initial losses.

After the May 7 air battle, India began targeting Pakistani military infrastructure and asserting its strength in the skies. Its Indian-made BrahMos supersonic cruise missile repeatedly sliced through Pakistan’s air defenses, according to officials on both sides.

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